The Mommy Blog | Adventures from the Wonderbelly of Motherhood

Thursday, July 28, 2005

Don, I completely respect your comment and views on this. I admit that I often listen to her in the car. For the most part, she does hand out common sense advice, has a firm grip on how people think and react, and can project possible paths (except maybe when she suggested just last week that an open marriage arrangement might lead to an interest in children and congress with furry animals. Open Marriage: the Gateway Drug to Criminal Sexual Deviancy and Sociopathy!).

She is tough but fair with many of her callers. I want to slap most of them myself and cringe when I hear some of their questions. Having said that, she is over the top in my opinion on a few issues such as dating after divorce (not until the kids are eighteen) because she doesn’t allow any room for those who might do it responsibly, i.e., no introducing the kids to the boyfriend right away, and not AS the boyfriend until marriage is imminent, and no cohabitating without marriage. I can go with that, and in fact am. I also have issues with her stance on homosexuality, and have heard her refer callers to an organization that cures deviant sexual orientation through therapy and prayer. So, while those aren’t quotes from the book, they are two specific examples.

As for the book, I will say that I did not read more than twenty or thirty pages of it, and none of it recently, but what I remember was an exhortation to treat the husband as the man of the house and someone to be bedded, fed, respected, and cleaned for as a way of getting the love and respect you yourself want.

I may have it wrong. It may work in some marriages; my bet is that it works in those that weren’t too far gone to begin with. When you want to throw lawn tools and can’t stomach the thought of actual naked congress with your husband, it’s probably not a winning strategy.

There is a core to her message: if you want to save your marriage and if you want your husband to be glad he’s married to you, here are some things you can do instead of whining about it. You aren’t getting anywhere with your current strategy? Do this. It’s at least something to try before throwing in the towel.

Having said that, it is not a formula that can be applied to all marriages. Virtually every man with whom I’ve discussed this book says something along the lines of, “Guys are simple creatures. All we want is to be loved, cared for, respected, and bedded. Simple. If we get that, we’ll treat our wives like queens.”

Well, campers, I have experimented with that recipe, and it went entirely unnoticed. Maybe we were too far gone, maybe I didn’t execute it flawlessly (“Here’s your duck l’orange, Stupid”), maybe it wasn’t a good recipe. I don’t know.

But I DO know that this book wielded clumsily and self-righteously by indignant spouses can do more harm than good to the ol’ Goodwill Bank Account. Thanks, Don, for pointing out that we need to be more specific and to offer more substantive arguments. Those are my very favorite kind, and I welcome and make room for any dissenting opinion expressed with grace and respect and a firm grounding in the material.

I’ll be waiting here with my coffee and a smile on my face for that person.

see, not such a loose cannon

Melanie Lynne Hauser said on...
07.28.05 at 07:32 AM |

Ugh. I HATE self-help books. Sorry. But we’re a self-help nation and I’m sick of it. Get over it, people. Talk to each other, treat each other with respect, laugh at jokes even when you don’t think they’re funny, and you’ll find that life’s pretty easy, for the most part.

Don said on...
07.28.05 at 07:42 AM |

“She is over the top in my opinion on a few issues”...while there probably isn’t an ironclad definition of “over the top,” I will still agree with you on this. There isn’t anyone on radio, or anyone who has preached to us or taught us or just simply nagged us in our lives that wasn’t over the top on some issues.

As to the no dating after divorce, I agree it is like you say later, “it is not a formula that can be applied to all [situations].” I think all her advice falls into this category. I do however believe it is the better general rule rather than dating after divorce is OK for everyone. She might even preach this absolute rule because everyone is so likely to screw up the possibly better rule of extremely limited dating under such and such freakishly cautious rules and conditions. I can think of three friends with kids who have dated after divorce and all three have pretty much objectively caused harm to their kids in the process (btw…you are not one of them, despite your blog, there is no one on the net that I would claim to “know” that I have not met).

Her stance on homosexuality, I think is the same, she’s playing the odds. Are there instances…thousands even, where kids are better off with a homosexual parent, of course. But, is it the best general rule that homo and hetero parents should be treated identically? She and a huge percentage of the population would disagree. People don’t know, or forget, that Dr. Laura was highly praised in the homosexual community early in her career because she had a reputation for treating homosexual callers with respect and dignity (that they deserve) and for defending their rights. She, like many others, just got into trouble when those rights intersected with what she believes is generally in the best interest of children.

Back to the book, men really are simple, more so than women, but we’re smart enough not to leave a good thing. If the book is as you summarized, it might be just as applicable if it were the care and feeding of spouses in general instead of just men. However, I suspect that she focused on me because you women, darn it, are just a little bit more complicated. Treating your spouse like a King or Queen will, as general rules go, work wonders. Maybe it only works in certain stages of marriage…OK. But, that does not support the mocking hatred for the book shown in the comments to the previous post. While I don’t want to make this an ad hominem attack, you don’t need to be a freaking psychologist to see that there is more going on in the comments than simply disagreement with an author.

Finally, from the Bible to any issue of Woman’s Day, or whatever, if “wielded clumsily and self-righteously by indigent spouses can do more harm than good.” This is not an effective criticism of the book. It is merely an accurate criticism of clumsily, self-righteously, indigent spouses.

Have at me…I’ve got to get back to work.

Imperfect Mommy said on...
07.28.05 at 07:49 AM |

I agree wholeheartedly. I’m off to the pool so I can’t comment at length… but I am taking my daughter for the first time this summer. This is after a morning of doing the evil business (working to fulfill myself and have my own career), and then tonight I’ll make dinner for my husband, and clean the house, and do all that I do on a “daily” basis (which happens to be my word). I work my ass off, and I am afraid I just really resent anyone saying that their definition of perfection has to be anyone else’s.

Marriage and family was my choice, but it is not everyone’s, and it certainly doesn’t indicate perfection (plenty of psychos who are married with kids). When someone says that dual career families and daycare are the downfall of modern society and the reason so many women are unhappy, I really take issue. I just want my husband to be my partner in all of this—and I am sorry if I get angry when he does not act like an equal partner. Maybe some men (and I know, not all men) need to take a look in the mirror and really think about whether they are equal partners with their wives. We all need to be cared for and loved, that is a given. But sometimes cleaning the toilet or washing the dishes is all the love I want.

(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) said on...
07.28.05 at 08:38 AM |

I think Don has enough material for a blog site of his own…

(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) said on...
07.28.05 at 09:28 AM |

An opinion may require specifics and substantive backup, but a passing crack on a blog? Who knew?

Not that I didn’t enjoy the specifics and backup in the latest post.

Anyone who speaks in the tone that Dr. Laura does - rude, smarmy, self-satisfied, intolerant of more nuanced viewpoints, downright ugly towards opposing ones - invites cracks far sharper than Mindy’s, before we even begin to address her content.

I find it odd that Dr. Laura zealots are among your readers, Min, but I guess that speaks to your universal appeal.

Autumn said on...
07.28.05 at 10:24 AM |

My issue is that somehow rude, indignent spouses tend to seem to think that Dr. Laura supports thier veiws…

I disagree with her on so many levels it deserves a post of it’s own, one I refuse to commit the time or energy to. Sorry, should anyone be interested.

Not that I too don’t want to smack people who are stupid, but I believe both partners need to be loved, pampered and catered to to make marriage work.

As for the bedding thing? That perhaps is where to many marriages go wrong. I know that’s where my first one did, and where many friends marriages struggle.

Though Mindy, I’m not touching the open marriage thing other to say I totally support it for those who are capable of handling it. (anyone who cares to know whay can go dig through my archives.)

It’s mostly her tone that pisses me off. Just like Dr. Phil. People need to learn to be responsible, and when they can’t be they need support and help and love to find thier own answers, not be told what the right answers “should be.”

Amber said on...
07.28.05 at 01:02 PM |

Dr Laura, it seems, only sees two shades, black or white. There are times when we need to be spoken to in black and white, and often I think that Dr Laura’s callers are in a state of mind where they need the blunt black and white, otherwise they wouldn’t have picked up the phone in the first place. But so many times life throws an amazing and overwhelming spectrum of greys our way.

When I do listen to her (I haven’t read her book) I get the impression that these people are looking for an answer to be given to them, and she merely obliges. More often than not though, I find myself yelling at the radio (the caller and Dr Laura) because there is no way that complete, coherent or conclusive advise or direction can be given to a real life situation in a 3 minute phone call. The callers are cut off when trying to explain in any depth their circumstances or it is obvious they don’t wish to divulge the full story - causing, IMO, poor advise being given. I shudder to think that some people would make a life decision based on one of these calls.

But more than a ‘do you like Dr Laura’ ‘No, I can’t stand the bitch’ ‘yeah, me too’ type debate, I think the issue is: ‘Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water’.

With any advise, be it from a mother, a friend, a therapist, a neighbour, a talk-show host or religious leader, we should glean then separate the good from the bad. We’ve all been given brains to think for ourselves. We know our situation better than anyone else ever could. We know our children better than anyone else ever will and ultimately we are the ones responsible for the choices we make.

I say, look to the self help books, the articles in your favourite magazine, have that cup of coffee with your friend and seek her opinion, let someone nag you and even call Dr Laura if you must. But then, we should take what’s said and intelligently apply it to our own life and situations.

We know our own endurance levels, breaking points and wells of strength (or lack of them). Advise is great, but let each individual have the right to apply or disregard as they see fit. This rarely fits with those who see in black and white.

Amy Steier said on...
07.28.05 at 01:49 PM |

What works for one couple doesn’t always work for all couples. To each their own.

Dr. Laura makes $$$ from people who are unhappily married. Without unhappy couples, she’d be just another Jane Doe.

People should do what comes naturally when it comes to their relationships. Books are just resources, not solutions.

(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) said on...
07.28.05 at 05:33 PM |

Hey, fellow lurkers and bloggers, I’m exhaused reading this batch of comments. It has been suggested, sugggestively, that I leave long comments, but this batch scares me. Why spend so much time on dastardly accusatory and mirthless Laura—are we intent on selling her more books? The only absolute in relationships seems to me that two folks treat each other with absolute and total respect as absolute equals. Enough of this pampering and queen and king s…t. Oops, my secret word is “people,” as in we are all unique people living and loving lives that are unique to ourselves and any mates we may choose to have (monogamously or serially monogamously), of any sexual orientation. None of us readily sticks to any web/trap that sharp-talking Laura may spin with her constricting rules. So there. Wish I were off to the beach, but I’m off to somethine even better, my unique partner, who who doesn’t read Laura or Phil or anyone else to learn what I need or want. He asks me.

Pink Sun Drops said on...
07.28.05 at 06:45 PM |

Hear hear to Amber’s comment.“Take everything with a grain of salt” My word: purpose. Everything has it’s “purpose” to teach you something even the supposedly bad if only to learn not to do that, it’s just a matter of finding what that purpose is.

venturamom said on...
07.28.05 at 07:25 PM |

My word is college, as in let’s take a page from our college days… Pretend it’s 4:20. Inhale. Hold it. Ahhhhhhhhh. Now relax and enjoy the buzz of life.